This topic made me think of that line from Alice Cooper's "Generation Landslide" off of Billion Dollar Babies: Lafayette is being asked to extend curfew for those under 18 from 10:00 PM to 11:00 PM Sunday through Thursday. Any problem letting kids stay out later?
I'm just curious if the cops currently just cruise on by without curiosity if they see a kid out at 9:45 PM anyway. Isn't any kid out after dark something to notice? Do we need an official curfew? Can the cops not ask them what's up until after the curfew kicks in? It just all seems like overblown bureaucracy. If something looks suspicious, check it out. Who cares what time it is?
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Here is the link to the current ordinance:
http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10101&sid=6
As one can see, it's not so much as the police checking on someone as it is to authorized them to take some sort of action. It also deals with vagrancy and parental/guardian responsibility
What I'd like to know is why are minors out after dark on school nights even until 10 p.m.? Where are the parents? What is there to do in town after 10 p.m. these days?
I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
Some would argue nothing good comes from bored kids hanging out, no matter the time of day. But kids should be allowed to be kids. Especially during the summer. The weather's good, and it doesn't get completely dark until nearly 10pm.
Police should interact with the community, and ask any gathering of kids what's up, regardless of the time of day. Just like there's nothing wrong with them chatting it up with a gathering of adults. Put's a human face on the local cops.
The curfew enables the police to enforce a law if they need to, to handle problem situations. I don't believe the police have used the curfew law unncessarily, or in a draconian way, have they?
I'd be curious to know how many curfew violations have occurred in the past year. I can't imagine changing it by one hour would have any impact at all on this community.
Today is the longest day of the summer. Sun sets at 8:32 p.m.
The curfew does not distinguish between when school is in session or not.
And the ordinance extends to children up to the age of 18 right now.
I agree police should interact with kids whenever. I suspect that doing so after 10 p.m. is a lot different than during the day.
The staff report posted did not provide any rationale as to why the Youth Advisory Board was asking for the change. I'm querying today as to why?
Last I checked it didn't get completely dark until well after the sun set.
Kerry, surely you didn't have such a sheltered childhood you didn't hang out past 10pm on a summer's evening?
I hope the city changes the curfew time, and cuts the kids a little slack. One hour isn't going to create more juvenile delinquents.
No sheltered childhood here. In my home town, the drinking age was 18, not 21. Nothing was open after 10 p.m., even the liquor stores. We could drive at 16. The cops knew who the trouble makers were.
The ordinance doesn't differentiate between summer and school seasons.
The curfew change was discussed by Curt Cheesman on behalf of YAC back in February. The rationale were that older youth are involved in employment and extracurricular activities that cause them to break the law, and also that events like school dances are subject to an exemption under ordinances such as one in the City of Boulder. Makes sense to me...
http://www.cityoflafayette.com/files/itema1022007.pdf
"Curfew" has a draconian feel. Why can't the cops bust you for doing something wrong, instead of creating an arbitrary hour to clear the streets? Who comes up with this stuff?
I'm trying to understand this.
The current curfew only applies to minors (under the age of 18). 18 year olds can have unrestricted drivers licenses.
So where do minors work until 10 p.m. today? And since when do schools have functions after 10 p.m. during school nights?
One of my sources says the current ordinance is used by the police to stop kids driving around after 10 p.m. at night to see what they are up to.
And if someone has a job, they are exempted from the ordinance as I read it:
"unless such person is accompanied by a parent or guardian or other person having custody of such minor or unless in performance of duty directed by such parent, guardian or other person having custody or unless such person is lawfully employed, making it necessary to be in such place during the period specified above."
The greatest cause of death among teenagers is auto accidents, often DUIs.
Now granted, at that age and single with no kids, this curfew stuff is poor bunk to me. But as a parent with two sons having survived those days, it's a different matter.
This shouldn't be decided because council doesn't "believe" kids should be out late. There has to be justification.
Unless Lafayette has an identified problem that's been tied to underage kids out late, cut the good kids of this town a break, extend the curfew to 11pm.
Thank you Council.
Only mistake was listening to the Police Chief with his non-facts about why crime is down. Louisville has a more liberal curfew, but doesn't have more of a problem with juvenile crime than Lafayette.
At least it was a step in the right direction.
Thank you council? Are you a teenager who wants to carouse around for an additional hour on weeknights Dok? I don't see the point of the change.
Yeah, that's me, dreamer. My habits would be more in conflict with the 5am time restriction.
I say "Thank you Council" because at least they changed it a little.
I just don't see the need for curfews. Sounds like something the Iraqi government imposes.
Curfews give the Police a legal reason to stop and question those who are out late. Does not, as implied by the Police Chief, have a significant effect on crime.
In actuality, Police stop people of all ages, at any time of day, for whatever reason they wish.
As with most laws, curfews mean everyone pays a price although very few are causing problems.
Sorry folks, the Daily Camera got it wrong and is going to issue a retraction.
What the council decided was to have the city attorney draft a modified ordinance for its consideration. Then the defined process will proceed.
So someone wants 16 year olds out driving around any time day or night, especially during a school night? Must not be a parent. And unfortunately, a lot of parents/guardians etc. don't exercise good judgement when it comes to oversight of their teenagers.
Look up the statistics on teenage driving.
And yes, there are laws that affect all of us though only a minority of us are the problem. It seems the majority wants police protection from the minority.
I don’t buy the “a lot of parents/guardians” comment. There may be a few, but you’d have to provide evidence of “a lot”.
And, simply agreeing “there are laws that affect all of us though only a minority of us are the problem” doesn’t justify it. Most people let their local governments enact curfews because they don’t believe it will affect them directly. That doesn’t justify ineffectual curfew laws.
Not only am I a parent, but I raised kids who became a dentist and a teacher. Shame on me for allowing them the freedom to drive around whenever they wanted.
However, if they had wanted to use that freedom to get into trouble, a curfew wouldn’t have stopped them.
Curfews are like speed limits. If you make them too restrictive, you create a situation where law-abiding citizens ignore them and break the law. If you make them reasonable, most people will abide by them, and the real scofflaws are the ones ignoring the law.
In the case of curfews, the reasonableness test should be driven by statistics proving a cause/effect. I doubt such statistics exist.
Without statistics to prove their effectiveness, curfews are simply a knee jerk reaction. Liberalizing the hours won’t cause more juvenile crime in Lafayette, it’ll just mean fewer law-abiding kids will be breaking the law.
I've asked the PD for statistics. There are two parts to the discussion as the Chief pointed out. Keeping the community safe when errant kids are out late at night during the week. And protecting the kids from the errant adults who are out at that time (DUIs, speeders, etc.)
According to the Chief's pubic testimony and what the ordinance currently says, if a minor is out after curfew with a legitimate reason, nothing happens. It's the minors out with no legitimate purpose and engaging in illegal activities is the issue. So please read the law.
As for how curfews effect people, evidently some really think it does. Since that's where the request came from.
Review what the history of the Damm case is and the police reports on it as an extreme example.
Unfortunately there has been a breakdown in parental authority and responsibility these days. I don't think the world is the same as when you and I were raising kids. I asked 3 department heads how they felt about extending the curfew. Their unanimous response is no way would their kids be out that time of night alone.
The arguments don’t convince me curfews accomplish anything. Will be interesting to see what “statistics” the PD can conjure up. Stats can show whatever you want them to show.
Minors engaging in illegal activities at any time of day is a concern, but apparently the current curfew hasn’t stopped this, so extending the curfew by one hour will have no impact on crime.
As for the purported loss of parental authority and responsibility, I know a lot of people raising kids today who would argue the point. Different times, no doubt, but parenting was neglected by some when we were raising kids as well. Again, let’s see some documentation this is worse today.
The Damm case, as you say, is an extreme example. Extreme examples are not sufficient to warrant curfews. If extreme examples are to be the basis for curtailing personal rights, we won’t have any rights left.
d-b,
I don't think any statistic or data will convince you.
If you support the idea of minors out all hours of the night and driving anywhere at any time, including the gangs in East Boulder County, then there is nothing more I can say.
But even the state law restricts minors to 12 p.m. midnight.
You provide me with statistics that prove otherwise. Opinion without facts is opinion.
This is rapidly turning into 'how many angels can dance on a pinhead' type of discussion. First, you either trust the police chief's reasons or you don't. Having worked with him for over three years I have not found him to be an advocate of draconian or unnecessary measures, and his willingness to compromise on the issue to the point where it does not affect public safety is proof of that. The YAC made the recommendation, we listened, we acted.
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